This podcast was produced by OAR FM Dunedin with support from New Zealand On Air.
It's time for Talking Otago with ORC.

Host: Well the South Dunedin future programme is a joint initiative between the Dunedin City Council 
and the Otago Regional Council to develop climate change adaptation options for South Dunedin.
 It has been much talked about for a number of years. Now we'll find out now just where that programme is at.
Joining us on the line is the programme manager Jonathan Rowe. Jonathan, kia ora, good to have you with us. 

Jonathan: Kia ora, good morning Jeff and thanks for having me. 

Host: Jonathan, perhaps you could start with giving us a little bit of a history as to as to how and why this plan came together. 

Jonathan: Sure, well I guess climate change has been a topic of discussion in regards to South Dunedin for a number of years now
and it really, I think things came to a head in 2015 when the when the big floods occurring during and people started to look at really
seriously. There's a lot of different views and a lot of concerns around the exposure and then people faced out here and I think it was
a catalyst for councils to look at and see how we need to take a bit of a collaborative, integrated approach to this because 
it's a really complicated, long term issue and that was the genesis for what is now the South Dunedin Future programme. 

Host: What have been the the contributing elements to bring this plan together so far, Jonathan? 

Jonathan: It's a combination of things really. The plan outlines five phases really. First phase is really looking at what's happening
 in South Dunedin. And   that's all around the changes to the physical environment. So some of those are around the changes
that have occurred in the past, so reclamation of that land for a former wetland out there , and the complications that that creates
around groundwater and and as many people in South D will know you know if if you dig in your backyard too far, depending on
what the tides are doing, it starts to fill up. So there's those sorts of issues. 

You've got a lot of rainfall that comes down on the hills, and sort of funnels down into the South D area. Then of course people
will be familiar with climate change and the impacts associated with rising sea level. So all of these things have combining, so that's
one of the elements of the programme. We want to look at those, understand them, see how they're gonna change over time and 
then communicate that to all of the stakeholders so they have a really good sense of that.

We want to talk to people about what matters to them. So what do they value about South Dunedin, and how might that be affected
by the changing climate that we're facing. And that's a lot of things around, not just assets, their homes but also their communities,
the environment, their cultural connections to the land.

The third bit is around what can we do about all that? And the whole spectrum of options. If you think about that, either people talk
about fight, you know digging in and building sea walls and the like, and at the other end it's flight which are terms like, people might
have heard about managed retreat. You know you retreat from the area that's at risk.

And then the last two phases are about once we've decided what we want to do about it, how do we crack on and make that happen?
And then the fifth stage is really about monitoring it. So how do we make sure it's working and then adjusting because there are lots of uncertainties.

Host: It's a complex piece of work, isn't it? And necessarily you need to be looking long term here. You've had to take in to account a lot
of factors you know, including the people that live there. They're being part of the process in terms of the the consultation around this so far? 

Jonathan: Absolutely. So community engagements a key, or the key pillar of the whole programme, really. And that's that's maybe a slightly
different approach to how these things have happened in the past with major projects. So as I say, lots of uncertainty. With that, we don't
know what global emissions are going to look like in 50 and 100 years. We don't know exactly what the sea level is gonna look like or
 necessarily how the weather is going to be, or the effect on various hazards. So we have to plan for lots of different possibilities and
that involves lots of different consultation and engagement with stakeholders and the community out there that could give them a sense of all the different
things that could happen. And also so that people understand what their options are and and some of those are going to be, what decisions
and actions councils take.  But some of them are going to be what personal decisions people make about their own investments, where they live
and what they can expect if they live there.

Host: Your appointment is a joint one between the Dunedin City Council and the Otago Regional Council, what have you put in front of them recently? 

Jonathan: Yes, so I get the benefit of working across both councils. Actually it's really great role in that sense because there's so many different vertical
parts of each council that that that have that have elements within its transport, three waters, parks and recreation, Natural Hazards.
And then working across all of them helps bring that together and coordinate it. So what we've recently presented to both DCC and ORC Councils is a
plan for how this would work and basically it's a four to five year process was broken it down into 40 odd steps. My colleague talks about how you eat an elephant,
well, one mouthful at a time and what we've done is try to break this really big, long, complex process into bite size pieces, and we're going to bite
them off one at a time. 

So building on alot of the community engagement we've done around this on what's happening and and getting a sense of what
people want, we need to really up our communications game. So we've got a lot of quite complex natural hazards information for example,
but not potentially accessible to the average person. So we need to do a whole lot of work around turning this information to products that
people can easily digest and understand and make it available when we start to put it onto social media, and into graphics and the like.

There's a whole lot of work around that. We've got to do some investigations into the natural hazards and do a bit of an international 
study around what are other people doing in this space and are there lessons that we could learn.

Host: In terms of the most immediate next steps, what are those? 

Jonathan:  So part of it is around setting the structure of the programme so getting access to all of the key groups that the key stakeholders and communicating
the information to them and then the big piece really that people are interested in is what could this look like? So I think in in the next 6 to 12 months
we want to be in a position where we can say, okay, these are the types of adaptation options that might be on the table for South Dunedin.
These are their pros and cons and this is what it might cost in ballpark figures, and that's the kind of big next step in terms of getting a sense of
what stakeholders and the community think about those options. And then basically we do a process of rinse and repeat where we consult with them
on a whole range of options. Take that feedback and fine tune things, probably eliminate a couple of the less popular and less viable options and
you start going through this process of narrowing it down until you land on some preferred approaches and then we look to roll them out. 

Host: So that's an important point, isn't it, that that not all of the decisions on what happens have been put in place yet. Rather, this is a plan
that throws up a series of options that need to be worked through. 

Jonathan: Correct, yeah. We haven't produced any answers yet. What we've done is sort of outline the process where we can work through the issues and
that will generate answers. I realise it can be frustrating for people, you know everyone wants to kinda know what we're gonna do now, 
but it's a really complex process and it's gonna be long term and it's really worthwhile taking the time to engage with affected communities,
understand what they want and what's on the table and and as I said before there's lots and lots of uncertainty with this, so we wanna avoid a scenario
where we take an option and put a whole lot of investment into it and then find out in 10 years' time that maybe that wasn't the best approach,
but we're committed now. 

Host: Mana whenua playing a role as well Jonathan?

Jonathan: Absolutely, so we've got some really great conversations we've had and yet to have with mana whenua around how we design
and conceive of the programme and what it's trying to do. And also things around the cultural elements - the cultural restoration and that pre-European history
and what those landscapes looked like in South Dunedin. And whether this could be a process that might contribute to restoring some of those,
there's lots of work to do here, but it's an exciting space. 

Host: Have you got the big tick as far as both councils are concerned in terms of what you've presented in the report so far, so that you can feel that you can move on with it?

Jonathan: Yes, so both councils approved the plans and all the same plan in July so we have got that tick if you like, which is great because
I think prior to having that, because the programme is so complicated and there's lots of elements to it, it's a little bit difficult to communicate
 to people and help them understand what it is and what it's not. 

So I think we've we've defined the programme, we've explained what it is, we've outlined the process for the next four years to spit out what we
think would be a really great adaptation plan and strategy for South D. And we've obviously convinced enough councillors to vote for it. 
So we've got that mandate to crack on and do it.

Host: Jonathan, you mentioned that you know that communications around this is going to be going to be key along the way. For those right now,
who are kind of proactive in that space if they want to see what work has been done to date and to follow what's going, where should they go? 

Jonathan: So there's a number of places. Probably the best place to start is the Dunedin City Council website. It has a South Dunedin Future webpage there
that has a bunch of information around the programme, the hazards, the issues that are up, that would be a good place to start. 
The ORC also has a lot of information on South Dunedin, more through a natural hazards lens, and they also have a natural hazards portal that
people can look into some of the hazards in a bit more detail - sea level rise, groundwater and the like. And then basically just follow the links. 
We provide a regular update in The Lowdown, which is the print communication that goes out in South D, and we will be looking to put a bit
more in the paper and one or two other places. I'm told we need to be on social media so I need to get a bit cooler than I am now 
now and get a bit more up to date with the young people. 

Host: Good on you Jonathan. Jonathan Rowe, programme manager with South Dunedin Future.
Thanks for taking some time to join us here on OAR FM to bring us up to date with the work so far. 
Plenty yet to do but nice to see that we've got the momentum going forward on an issue that will be of great concern of course
not just to people across South Dunedin, but for people across the city, and indeed probably across the world, as we look at various cities and places
making their decisions about adaptation to climate change. Most interesting topic. Thanks Jonathan. 

Jonathan:  Thanks for the opportunity and happy to come back and provide an update. 

Host: Kia ora.

This podcast was produced by OAR FM Dunedin with support from New Zealand On Air.